Walking in Two Worlds
A Conversation with Native Soul Singer Martha Redbone
by Tom Pearson
My interview with Brooklyn’s own Native soul singer, Martha Redbone, is the first in a series of interviews with artists involved in the second Native Theater Festival at the Public Theater. Martha kicked off the festival with a performance at Joe’s Pub on November 12, 2008. We started by talking a bit about Martha and where her music comes from, while video taping for the Hemispheric Institute archives, hemi.nyu.edu, an online library of interviews dealing with performance and politics in the Americas, and also audio recording for the accompanying podcast.
Tom: I’d like to get us started with a little info about you. Could you talk a bit about yourself and your music and about where you are coming from with all of that?
Martha: OK, well I was born and raised in New York City and also in the Appalachian Mountains in Kentucky, what we call Appalachia. My mother is Native American. She’s Choctaw, Shawnee, and Cherokee. My grandpa was Choctaw, and my grandma was all the other mixed tribes. And my father is African-American. She [my mother] left the mountains when she was in her early twenties because she felt that she wanted to give, you know, she wanted to see the world, and I think she ended up coming to New York City and staying to give us more opportunities than she had in rural Appalachia. So, we were raised, my brother and I, here in New York City. So even though we had the sounds of the city around us, when you go home it’s chicken n' dumplings and fry bread and “Who’s makin’ the beans?” That’s how it was for us. We had this dichotomy our whole lives. And when I started writing songs for myself to sing, I thought it would be a nice idea to honor where I came from. Because you know people always ask, “What are your major influences,” and people say, “Oh I grew up listening to Otis Redding” or “My parents loved this” or “This was always on the radio when I was a kid.” And I thought, “Yeah, all those things are true from my parents,” but I’d also like to kind of honor them because their influence is what makes me who I am today with the musical thing that I’m trying to create, which is what I call “Native Soul.” It’s mixing Traditional Native Music with Rhythm and Blues. And you know, I’ve heard Native Rock. I’ve heard traditional music, and I thought, “No one’s done soul music with that.” How would it sound? And it would be really great if we could figure out a way to combine the two. I figured, “Well, they’re both roots music, so it should work like any other combination of music that comes together,” but I didn’t want it to feel contrived or patronizing. I didn’t want it to be, like, I guess a cheap pop. I wanted it to be fun, fun and catchy, yes, in the pop aspect, but I wanted it to really kind of dig into something that hadn’t been done before to this extent. And in my research I found only one group who’d done something like that, who’d done rhythm and blues and had honored where they’d come from, and that’s the Neville Brothers, who are, like, my heroes.
Tom: And did you know that before?
Martha: Well, no I didn’t. I didn’t even think about it before. I mean, I know their music, but I never really paid attention to what it was. I just loved what they did, and I didn’t pay attention to why I loved it, but when I started singing traditional songs from my grandpa’s nation and from the Cherokee nation, I thought, “This really sounds familiar.” And then I found their Yellow Moon album, produced by Daniel Lanois, and then also their album Valence Street, and I thought, “Oh wow! So they’re doing it too.” So the Neville Brothers and myself are the only people who I know who are doing it. I hope many more end up doing that.
Tom: When you first started were you, right from the get-go, were you blending both of these traditions?
Martha: Yes
Tom: How did that evolve?
Martha: How did that come about?
Tom: Yeah.
Martha: As an independent artist, I’ve never had a major record deal ever, and when we made our first CD, Home of the Brave, we pulled favors, saved money, got angel investment, you know, we begged borrowed and stole to make that record. And when the album was about to come out, well, I didn’t have a title for the album because none of the song titles felt right, and I thought, “Well, if I were to pass on tomorrow and my CD ended up on somebody’s desk in Japan, what would I want them to know just from that album cover?” And so the first thing I wanted, at that time, was I wanted them to know that I was American, that I was Native American, and African-American, and that I sang soul music. You know, that kind of thing, just headlines.
Tom: Very clear messages…
Martha: And that’s how it came about… and that I wanted to honor where I came from, that was the main thing I felt, you know, making music. And music comes from the soul. My dedication to my heritage, I really wanted that at the forefront. I got really sick and tired growing up, I think I mentioned it in last night’s show, where I had to fight as a child because people didn’t, when I was in school, people didn’t understand that my mother is American Indian. They thought that Indians don’t exist anymore.
Tom: It’s still like that. There’s still that educational step.
Martha: It really is still like that. So, it became something that was just kind of an idea of me honoring where I come from to a responsibility, and now I feel and have felt for the past five years, that it’s my responsibility to let the world know, whoever wants to hear. I don’t know how far our music is going to take us, but I just felt I needed to educate the listeners that Native American people do exist. We are not just in Dances with Wolves; although, that was a great film. We’re hybrids. We come in all colors and nations and traditions, and we don’t necessarily always have to wear the feathers and the fringe to be recognized. And those are the things that I do now. My journey has turned from music to children’s workshops to motivational speaking. It’s opened up this whole can of worms I didn’t expect, but it’s a nice can of worms for me.
Tom: In talking about where you’re coming from and about these two traditions that you are pulling from, your name itself has an interesting story, can you tell us a little bit about that?
Martha: Yes, Redbone was my nickname. My family called me Red. That was a derogatory term for people who were Native and Black, and as a child I hated that name, you know, “Little Redbone.” I thought it was just horrible, so I decided in this process of healing and acceptance of being mixed race in New York City, you know, with this traditional heritage mom and African-American father, I thought that I should embrace everything that I am. My dad passed away in 2001, and that kind of made me realize and appreciate everything that I am, because you know, we are not all going to be here forever, and so I decided to turn what I was ashamed of into something to be proud of, and I thought I’d just take that name and use it as my surname.
Tom: I think that’s also indicative of your music that there’s a real sense of reclamation in a lot your songs and in a lot of what you do. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about, within your music, what are your political agendas if there are any? I think we are always political. But are there certain themes that you keep coming back to?
Martha: I think um, one of the… I guess I didn’t think of it as an agenda, but I guess it is kind of an agenda. Like I said, my mission is to educate people without being preachy, you know, if the music is fun and everyone’s dancing around and the messages are positive and very strong, but in a subtle way, I just hope that people can have an open mind. That’s what I’m trying to do with our music and with my band. My band are mixed race. We are kind of like Sly and the Family Stone across the board. And our music vocabulary is from all styles of music: classical jazz, rock, funk, soul, and it’s all there, and we all have that mindset. There’s a Lakota phrase, “mitakuye oyasin,” which is “all our relations.” I think, in a way, the music that we are doing, the kind of infusion that we are doing, and the band are reflective of it. You know, I am mixed race, and it’s kind of doing that whole thing, so maybe I’m just one big hybrid.
Tom: I think you are embodying your messages. And speaking of the diversity of your band, you had a special guest with you last night.
Martha: Yes, that’s right.
Tom: Can you tell us a little bit about how that came to be?
Martha: Gary Farmer. Gary Farmer is a buddy of ours who we met probably about five or six years ago. We did Buffalo Tracks, a TV show in Toronto which is a Native talk show. We met Gary back then and hung out with him, and recently, we ended up doing a bunch of shows together through the Seminole Hard Rock Café. We’ve been doing these sort of all-star Native blues festivals. Turns out, there’s the San Francisco Native Film Festival going on today, and they are giving tribute to Floyd Red Crow Westerman. I was invited to go out there to perform today, but I declined because I have a baby now, and we’ve been flying so much, and I thought “We’d better stay home or he’s going to be sick.” But Gary said “I’m going to be in NY.” And I said, “Oh, well we’re performing at Joes Pub,” [and he said] “so am I. I’m doing a play.” And we’re like, “Oh my God, you have to jump on stage with us.” So that’s how that happened.
Tom: That was exciting. It was a fun moment for everybody…
Martha: It was great fun.
Tom: …and you said this in your show last night, which I think is pretty remarkable that, I mean the show itself was fantastic and the crowd was great, it was a full house, and the crowd loved you…
Martha: The crowd was so much fun.
Tom: …and you’re doing this twelve weeks after having a baby.
Martha: Yes.
Tom: So, you’re juggling a lot. And your tour schedule has been pretty heavy, right?
Martha: Well, not really. I mean, we’ve done quite a few shows over the past few weeks, but it’s slowing down now, and it’s going to pick up again in the New Year. So, I’m fine, and he’s a rock ‘n roll baby. He just goes with the flow. He really does. He’s amazing. He’s already taken four trips, so eight flights. We went to Coeur d'Alene reservation to do a conference out there and then Phoenix for the NCAI [National Congress of American Indians] conference. And we were in Florida.
Tom: So, he’s seen a little bit of the world already.
Martha: Oh yeah, and he’s just right there. He’s amazing, but I think it’ll be nice to be home for a few weeks [laughs].
Tom: You have two albums currently.
Martha: Yes.
Tom: Are you working on another one?
Martha: Yes, I am. We played a lot of the new songs last night, which was really interesting. We got great responses. That’s kind of how we did the last album, the Skin Talk album. We wrote all the songs and then went on the road and played them for everyone, and we saw the responses. You know, certain songs were like “hmmm” and certain songs were amazing, and we said “OK…so…”
Tom: These are the ones.
Martha: These were test marketed. And we’ve had great success with Skin Talk. We were pleased with it much more than we’d ever expected. So with the new album, we’ve been playing these new songs and we play them as we write them.
Tom: Is there a lot of revision while you’re on the road?
Martha: Yeah, I always write and rewrite and rewrite, so yeah. I’m certainly not precious about the craft of songwriting. I really respect it.
Tom: Where we can see you next? Do you have anything coming up?
Martha: I think in January we are going to be doing a tour called Native Music Rocks. I believe it will sponsored by the Seminole tribe in Florida, and they’re putting together this kind of tour.
Tom: Is this down in Hollywood?
Martha: … in Hollywood, Florida but I think the kickoff is here at the Hard Rock in New York City. I’m not sure exactly where it’s going to take us, but I love the message behind it, and the Seminoles are really getting behind Native music, just bringing all musicians to the forefront. And this is something that hasn’t happened across the country, so I hope it really takes off and sets a nice precedent for casinos to hire Native music acts. I mean, B.B. King and Bonnie Raitt can’t be everywhere all the time [laughter]. Even though I love them both. And Bonnie is a huge supporter of Native rights. In fact, we did a concert together a couple of years ago to raise money. We raised over $130,000 to send twelve Native students to college, full scholarships.
Tom: You do a lot of work in that arena as well. Can you tell us a little more about your activities?
Martha: Sure. Well, I think there’s a thing where lots of Native musicians actually go to reservations and as part of doing the kind of band gig or whatever the concert performance is, we also like to go into the schools to talk to the teens or little kids to see where their heads are at. It’s like part of a meet and greet, and just to interact with the people of that nation. And for me, the national HIV and AIDS partnership in Washington, DC asked me to become a spokesperson for them, so that turned into, “OK so that is something that I will do.” I’ll go to these reservations and I will talk to the teens, and HAP [HIV/AIDS Prevention and Control Program], the Center for Disease Controls, gives me up-to-date statistics on what’s going on in Indian country. So, these are things that we also talk about with the teenagers. I also gave music workshops, particularly last year, with the United Houma Nation in Louisiana. You know, they’re about half an hour south of New Orleans on the bayou, and so I gave a traditional music workshop there last year for the teenage girls. And that was great fun, and I was going to do it this year, but then I had the baby.
Tom: And you are based in Brooklyn, right?
Martha: Yeah that’s right.
Tom: So, not only do you straddle several cultural traditions you also…
Martha: Straddle the urban one [laughter].
Tom: Yeah, yeah, you are rockin’ the urban thing too, which adds a whole other layer.
Martha: Yeah it does, and what’s nice about it is because the urban culture has spilled into Indian country, into youth culture with rap and rock and this kind of music, it’s not so foreign compared to how it used to be, so it’s nice. They get it. We get it. It’s a nice blend, healthy blend.
Tom: Is there a kind of invisibility, especially with urban Native artists? Have you experienced that?
Martha: Well, yeah, always. I mean being raised in New York City was like a big X, you know, because I’m not in the homeland. My grandparents raised me for a little bit when I was small but not having that connection or not being in the homeland, there’s a big stigma with that. I think a lot of these stigmas are disappearing, you know, and for me, thankfully because the world is a smaller place, and people get around. People are moving and coming back home and taking things. This is funny because I think it was, it might have been, Sitting Bull that said, “Our children will come back to us.” You know, and that’s kind of what’s happening. And it’s not just with myself, but there are tons of Native musicians and artists who live in cities: Chicago, you know, wherever, San Francisco, and then end up going back to Navajo country or Cherokee land. Anywhere. So, we bring… we live in two worlds. That’s what we say. We walk in two worlds. And in the end, you know, as long as we walk in beauty, we’ll be fine.
To listen to music clips or to find out more information about Martha Redbone, including a list of performance dates, visit http://www.martharedbone.com/.
MARTHA REDBONE (Choctaw/Shawnee/Cherokee/Blackfeet) is a leading voice in both soul and contemporary Native music. She has been recognized with awards for both of her albums - Skintalk and Home of the Brave, including the 2006 Independent Music Awards Best R&B album; Best Debut Artist at the 2002 Native American Music Awards; and two consecutive Indian Summer Music Awards for Best R&B Album of 2004 and 2005. Also in 2005, Martha received the National HIV/Aids Partnership Red Ribbon Award at the UN for her community work. Currently the Brooklyn native and daughter of a Choctaw/Shawnee/Cherokee/Blackfeet mother and African-American father is working on her third album.
Originally published in The Native Theater Journal
© 2009 Tom Pearson